Computer Help! PL0X Read!

[Rct3fan00]

Alrighty guys, so as some of you may know I got a brand new desktop! Much more reliable than my old'ish laptop. It is so much smoother and don't even get me started on games! I can actually record games at MAX settings usually at 60FPS! That is amazing! Minecraft, a game that lagged so hard for me while recording, would sometimes give me 20 FPS on my laptop if I were lucky. Now I get 60FPS. Now... here's a problem I have.

On my old laptop, I have adobe programs, such as After Effects and Premiere Pro. On my laptop, it'd be a bit difficult to edit in those programs smoothly sometimes. But in the end, once it's edited, rendering wouldn't usually be a problem, although I do know computers could render videos faster if they were at higher specs.

Now on my desktop, editing videos on those two programs is a breeze! Performance is fast, and previews are very smooth. But rendering the full video... seems VERY VERY slow! Even compared to my laptop! My laptop would render some of these videos almost twice as fast. I don't get that.

My computer is very smooth and efficient! Much more than my laptop!

Now, is anyone familiar with Cyberlink? If so, I also have PowerDirector 10, which is my simpler video editor, to make videos much quicker and easier since I'm very familiar with it. now, on my laptop, I edit pretty smoothly, usually no problems unless dealing with huge files or many many files at a time. I thought "Oh it's because I'm on a laptop and it can't handle much.". Rendering was usually not a problem. It was fast enough for me to not be impatient with it. Now on my DESKTOP I'm having all sorts of troubles with it! I can't even edit! Hardly since I can't preview what I just did. For example, if I dragged a 10 minute clip in the timeline, then clicked play just to watch it. I couldn't. It would play 0.25 seconds of it, and just freeze, a little progress bar that says "Rendering... XX%" And that would even take a while, and then once that was finished it would play 1 second more of the clip and do the same thing! So I can't even simply watch my clips without having it freeze every two seconds and having that rendering bar. Funny thing is, I was SHOCKED because I never even saw that rendering bar on that program on my laptop EVER. My laptop never had an issue simply playing back the clip. I found that strange! And yet again, the rendering was pretty slow. And I'm just so bamboozled by all of this nonsense I guess you could say?

Shouldn't my video editing and rendering and such be much much smoother than my laptop? Especially considering the specs are probably doubled?!

Check out this video comparing my laptop and desktop. Please watch to get a visual and please help.

Youtube video: youtu.be/RKfqJt5T06c

I can't even preview the video on my laptop... very bizarre. >_>

Laptop Specs:

Windows 7 Home Premium
Manufacturer: HP
Processor: AMD Turion II P540 Dual-Core Processor 2.40GHz
RAM: 4GB (3.74 GB usuable)
64-bit OS
Integrated graphics,video,sound card etc...

Desktop:

Windows 7 Home Premium
Manufacturer: Cyberpower PC
Processor: AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core Processor 3.80 GHz
Installed Memory: 8 GB DDR3 RAM
64-bit Operating System
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GT610

What is up?!

[ProMarbler]

Are your GFX settings at maximum? You might want to make sure. Otherwise, IDK.

... and keep your cousin away from it at all costs.

[IsraeliRD]

Through some research I found your CPU and GPU are... outdated. They were released in 2010. This could therefore mean you may also have bought a cheap PSU (Power Supply Unit) and your GPU is starving for power. The GPU is rather low-end as well. I know you don't need a lot, but spending just a tad more will push you from the low scale to mainstream. Just low for gaming, that's all.

Now then:

CyberLink: Yes! The problem exists due to the GPU you chose.
Install the latest Nvidia drivers to start with.
Then, install the recent patches : www.cyberlink.com/downloads/support/powerdirector-ultra/patches_en_US.html


If no luck, you may want to disable Nvidia's CUDA for CyberLink. Slower rendering, but it should work.

After effects & Premiere Pro: your GPU could be the killer. It could be wanting more power from it. Perhaps it's the 1GB vRAM that's pretty much destroying it. You should go to more basic enhancements and effects.
Make sure your power supply is at least 350W. Preferrably 400W+. These are cheap nowadays.

I did read that Nvidia drivers also have problems. 306.97 for example is bad, whereas 301.42 driver is good.

Both adobe programs use CUDA for their rendering rather than the CPU, so getting nvidia is a wise choice.


Lastly make sure you have all the latest codecs. Get the CCCP pack.

[Trace]

Yea, pretty much make sure that all your drivers and codecs are updated. That should fix your problem.

And holy crap I did not know they sold graphics cards that slow.

www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GT+610

You actually get less value per dollar spent than the high-end $500 cards.

[IsraeliRD]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units
For $50 more you'd get a mainstream card, the GT640.

Not everyone has the money though, so that's understandable, plus we all have different needs and I understand perfectly fine you don't have the resources to get something more powerful. I would be happy with a double performance too, but my needs are a bit different to yours.

However I must ask, why not go i7 since you are using video editing software a lot? Hyper-threading is serious to exploit on these cpus, even on the lower end of the i7's.

[Jeff]

Processor: AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core Processor 3.80 GHz

However I must ask, why not go i7 since you are using video editing software a lot? Hyper-threading is serious to exploit on these cpus, even on the lower end of the i7's.

At least go i5 although I agree with matan. Why would you get AMD. Its cheaper but horrible.

[Rct3fan00]

No choice, best PC I could find under the certain price range on Sears.com I was limited to that site due to my mom having a sears card. So on money I was limited. I might go i5 3rd Gen?

BUT... also didn't realize that my AMD was THAT outdated.

@matan: I updated NVIDIA Driver. Updating Powerdirector and I will get back to you.
I don't know how the Adobe programs do while rendering now... but editing is actually much better than laptop.

Can you explain then why my desktop had these issues yet my laptop which has less specs didn't?

Also... MATAN YOU'RE A LIFE SAVER!

And now some questions... help me out with choosing some upgrades. How do I check my power supply? Which is the NEXT NVIDIA that is not too expensive that I could do. As for my GPU. I honestly thought it sufficed, but if not, how much are they and how do I replace it?

I'm very new to PC hardware or even building. Say I got an Intel i7, to replace my AMD. How would I come about doing that?

Say I got a new NVIDIA. Would I simply remove my current one and put a new one in and it would just automatically work?

Thanks guys! I knew you guys would help and recommend things!

EDIT: If I have 8GB GDDR3 RAM that means I shouldn't get a Graphics card or GPU of GDDR5 right? Unless I upgrade my RAM sticks to GDDR5's?

[Trace]

That's not the way it works. You have DDR3 RAM, not GDDR3. GDDR5 is pretty much reserved to graphics cards, and it comes built onto the card itself, it does not matter that you have DDR3 RAM for the rest of the system, as they are independent of each other.

Don't bother with upgrading this computer, as the amount of stuff you would need to replace would cost 80% of the cost of a new computer by themselves. Just more research before you buy anything pls.

But yes, for instance with the graphics card what you would do is:
1. Uninstall old graphics driver.

2. Open case, unplug power cables from graphics card.

3. Remove old graphics card.

4. Put in new graphics card, connect power.

5. Boot computer, Windows drivers should auto-detect and install, computer should get to desktop.

6. Install new graphics drivers and reboot.

[Rct3fan00]

I don't see an error in slightly upgrading. Shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for that last tip too! I didn't research much because in all honesty it was THE best out of the choices I had to choose from. $600 dollar PC or under. I bought the monitor separate so it came to a total of $700.00+.

Did someone want to know how much wattage my power supply can handle? 500W.

Does that limit me in a way?

I'm learning more and more, thanks guys.

[[DWARF] RDs.empire]

I learned how to build computer from scratch and what everything means in hard way (aka researching for long hours) and now im still understanding what i coshed wrong. My system was in price of around >800$ (gpu and cpu costed most).

There's nothing much you can do about Processor since if motherboard is made for AMD then you can instal AMD processor only, which means if you would like to switch to i5 or i7 you would have to get new motherboard (that has LGA 1155 socket), those go pretty cheap if you don't plan on expanding your system much.
My opinion if you do so: if you're not planning to do serious video/photo editing go for something like Core i5-3570K (works fine for me and runs software and games really well even with recording + its 2/3 of the price of same tier i7)

PSU: for your system its made without any power reserve at all (considering you have some cd-rw reader/writer ) AND yes it limits to how much parts and how powerful parts you can put in your trunk. My psu is 650w (as I calculated my system takes about 550-600w so i chose 650 for later expanding if necessary)

I would suggest doing what trace said and leave this setup alone. You would have to pretty much change motherboard cpu psu and gpu which is 90% of your computer and not worth it.

Next time you choose computer my personal suggestions are:
1. think of how you will make your system (per built/ totally self made/ assembled by company but from your chosen parts).
2. Whatever is your choice check specs... make sure parts are somewhat equal in power (example of bad choice: i7 processor and nvidia GT series GPU) if done wrong slow gpu/processor will slow down faster parts.
3. If your planning to choose parts on your own check twice if things gonna fit together
4. Plain specs like x.xxghz processor doesn't mean its faster than some lower speed processor. Example 3.40ghz ivy bridge i5 processor is in pretty much same power as older 2.40ghz i7 sandy bridge processor. It applies to most of other pc parts too.
5. Do some proper research. Believe me its worth spending 6 hrs learning what this and that means and what makes difference. It made me make correct decision of choosing i5 instead of i7 because i understand that i wont be using multithreading thus in end i saved money rather than wasting it on stuff i didn't need.
6. ordering company to assemble your rig is a bit more worth than doing on your own. There is small chance you could break one of pins on your processor/ applying termo paste incorrectly, static electricity ruining something or that pars don't fit together. If you order company you pay some extra for assembly but in exchange they take all responsibility for parts and as on my occasion they inform me that they cant order certain part thus suggesting me another option + most of them offer 1 year warranty.
7.GPU: Nvidia>AMD>Intel or basically if you build office machine intel will do for pretty small price, If you have low budget and what some middle range thing AMD will work fine but if your building gaming right or working with some demanding programs Nvidia is way to go... Its expensive but well worth.
8. Processor: Intel>AMD Intel's more expensive but for me its been really reliable and supports everything. Also its hard to cook it, didn't managed to kill mine on my old machine
9. These days 4GB ram is small... 8GB is enough though for most gamers.
10. That pc case might be pretty but checking if all stuff will fit in or is it roomy and has good ventilation would be advised. Usually just checking customer reviews at newegg will give you idea of what people experienced.

Hope this will help you a bit for future system.

[Rct3fan00]

Thank you very much as well! A few more questions...

1. Could I just simply upgrade my AMD FX-4130 to something say like.... FX-4300 or FX-8320? Look them up if it helps.

2. I CAN NOT find "Stereo Mix" in my "Recording Devices" or "Playback Devices" in my volume control. Why is that? I'm trying to record the sound I HEAR through audacity and there is not option and such. Would downloading this help?

www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false

A high definition audio codec?

I think that is all... thanks!

[[DWARF] RDs.empire]

Jul 3, 2013 21:44:13 GMT Rct3fan00 said:

1. Could I just simply upgrade my AMD FX-4130 to something say like.... FX-4300 or FX-8320? Look them up if it helps.

8320 I think is worth a try but gpu will ''slow'' down its full potential and it seems like they don't make much difference. Hard to say since i haven't studied AMD's

Jul 3, 2013 21:44:13 GMT Rct3fan00 said:

2. I CAN NOT find "Stereo Mix" in my "Recording Devices" or "Playback Devices" in my volume control. Why is that? I'm trying to record the sound I HEAR through audacity and there is not option and such. Would downloading this help?

www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false

A high definition audio codec?

I think that is all... thanks!

You can try that... im sure that will do something if you have realtek audio card.
If you want best codecs arround (and you sould have them) get this fileforum.betanews.com/download/KLite-Codec-Pack_64bit/1094057842/5
But that wouldn't add mixer. Try this www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmzfJWVH6T8

[IsraeliRD]

The replies in this thread are great. To restate, your PSU and motherboard are the big limiters. You can upgrade CPU quietly (but to whatever the motherboard allows you to), the GPU you might have trouble but 500W sounds like it's gonna limit you hard.

What RDs.Empire said is true. You have to do a lot of research. I spent 3 hours trying to figure out whether I want i7 4770K or i7 4770. Differences? the K is 100MHz faster, allows overclocking. The non-K had 4 developer options including Intel's Trused Execution. Since I'm not a dev or anything I don't need the non-K and opted for the more expensive piece of hardware since I also had the money.

It also comes down to this:
- How much money you have. If you can save up money, the earlier the better.
- What is your upgrade cycle. We're living in a fast and modern world. Normal upgrade cycle is 3-5 years. Choosing high-specs can last for longer, but will be more expensive.
- Do you have a preferred company? What do you know about them.
- ASK others for opinions. Don't rush, ever. Spending 1 month researching is great. Even if you got a list (like I originally had) doesn't mean it's final. I still made changes to the SSD (chose to go with a smaller one) but the original list sticked due to the research and the fact everyone else said my list was pretty much all I needed and filled the requirements I wanted. I probably spent another good 3 hours researching on SSD even *after* I posted the final list.
- What EXPERT computer shops are available. Internet sounds good and all, but they don't give out the 3 year warranty and assistance you want. Sure, a bit more expensive, but you have a piece of mind.
Example: I have 2 shops. MSY which are dirty cheap, and BCC Computers which I was a costumer since my first computer. The latter is almost 20% more expensive but I've known them for long. What's better is BCC matches prices with MSY, so I can get cheap price for top class specs with the 3 year warranty and customer support.

Intel Vs Nvidia Vs AMD: AMD now manufacturer's their own GPUs ever since they bought ATI. However AMD is great for mainstream and giving value for money. Intel and Nvidia will be more expensive but they always beat AMD in terms of power. Remember, that comes at a cost of expensive.

Power Supply: again it's a killer. My current PC originally had 600W and died in 2 weeks. They then figured the GPU (GTS 8800) was the culprit, so they upgraded me for free to 750W. I later upgraded to more because as hardware age they may require more power.


CPU advice what RDs. said. Honestly the GHz may be shiny but you have to know the technology it was done on, differences between the different CPUs between the same technology is also important. Like I said I spent hours on K/Non-K and researching what I'm gonna get out of it.

GPU advice is the same as CPU, but also what you want to get out of it. You have to realise what is low end, mainstream and high-end. Learn the differences between companies. Again Nvidia > AMD but AMD has better value for money.
You also need to learn differences (in Nvidia) between GT, GTX, Titan etc.

Both CPU and GPU have great lists in wikipedia for easy comparison between them. I'll link again to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units
Gives you list of all Nvidia's GPUs and all the info you need to know on them. Such lists also go for Intel and AMD so you have to use them.

Motherboard: that is limited on your CPU the most. Some CPUs come with it integrated, and you can't modify. Can your GPU also support that motherboard? If you want SLI (two or more GPUs), you want more expensive motherboards. Also read the specs on them because they offer different things and some are *required* for you so you're gonna have to spend a lot of time researching into them.

HDD/SSD again tons of research. If HDD you must know basic requirements, familiarise yourself with top companies (Western Digital, Seagate) and their vast array of products and which one suits your needs. SSD is pretty much 6-7 companies but some got more shiny things than others and also whether they make own controllers or they rely on others. SSD tons faster, but HDD lives longer and has dirty cheap cost per GB.

RAM is Kingston for slightly more expensive but most reliable name out there. 8GB is sufficient, but 16GB gives you just so much more because video software programs will enjoy every single bit of it and will make sure to eat it.

Additional info:
Living in USA/Canada? Newegg should be #1 internet shopping place. You're gonna get in there good equipement for low price. However you will have to assemble own computer unless you purchase those from them.
I don't (australia...) so I can't purchase (well I can) because I need that warranty that a shop gives when they order the parts and build the computer. My shop gives 3 years, which is gonna be great.

Now remember how we said best equipement is expensive? In what you purchased your computer in, I got my CPU and motherboard. For RDs.Empire computer. I get CPU, GPU and blu-ray burner. CPU + GPU + Motherboard = $1000. And that's top end. Half the price I'd get high-end. This is how big the difference is.



Anyway, biggest recommendation is this:
If you can replace your GPU for a GT640, do that. Research if your motherboard DOES support it and whether your power supply would allow it. Your CPU might be still limited and could cause the problems in your editing software, and a new one could require a whole new motherboard which makes everything too messy to bother.
Retracting statement. Your CPU is a bigger bottleneck than I thought. No point in upgrading this comp. Read on for important info for future.


And lastly a word of advice: save money now. If you have ANY source of income, save part of it on the side. $5 on the side. $10 on the side. Make your own saving. Ask your parents for a savings account and put money there where no one else in your family has access to but you alone. Get a job if you can. See if you can clean parts of the house for money Don't let your parents limit you on where you can purchase just because they have a stinking card that gives them 5-10% off or gives them points (so they can spend on themselves lol).

In a year's time see how much you have. The more you got, the better it is for a new computer, completely. Old one can still have useful parts, maybe given to someone else in the family. Keep HDD no matter what, as well as the RAM. Keep monitor, Win7/Office, keyboard/mouse. You'll save money this way.
Ask us again in a year when you're ready and we'll help you do research. You will have to do the most though since it has to be designed to your needs and you know them the best. Reading 30-pages review articles sounds like too much work but they are worth it.

And don't be anyone's guinea pig.

That is all.

[Rct3fan00]

I read every word of that. I thank you very much. That what you said alone helped me out A LOT. I will go into more research next time. Yes, I have been saving slight money so far, and once I turn 16 in 3 months I plan to get a small part-time job. I need to not forget about this topic so I can look back at this in the future. I took every word and understood it. It was a mistake to just "buy" something not realizing what it could or couldn't handle.

For now, I can suffice with what I have. Much less of a pain than my laptop .

Let's say I am impatient and just want to boost my desktop NOW, is there much action I can take? If I am limited which I'm sure I am, would it be worth upgrading the most I can without... say, needing a new PSU or Motherboard? Etc...

For the time my PC was released, which was mid to late 2011 at the time was very good.

I had an idea of what very top-end computers were like. But that was just a dream to me. I thought I could never afford it, so I thought just going with high specs (So I thought) for not that much.

I am very happy with it. So I'll stick to it. Plus my mom would kill me if she heard me saying I want more or something bigger or better

Thanks for that again. I will remember and of course take it into consideration for next time.

That was quite the mouthful too Matan!

[MarbleDuck]

Jul 3, 2013 15:51:27 GMT Jeff said:

Processor: AMD FX-4130 Quad-Core Processor 3.80 GHz[/quote]

Its cheaper but horrible.

No.

No No No.

AMD is *not* horrible. While AMD doesn't have ultra high end offerings as Intel does, the processors it does offer occupy the value sector very nicely. You can get better performance per dollar with an AMD CPU, but you'll never get something that performs as well as a high-end Intel offering.

FX-4130 benches: www.vortez.net/articles_pages/amd_bulldozer_fx_4130_review,1.html

Through some research I found your CPU and GPU are... outdated.

Not entirely. The CPU and GPU are of recent generations, if not the most recent. The 6xx nVidia series is not too far behind the 7xx, and Bulldozer is not too far behind Piledriver.

That being said, it seems as though you have the ABSOLUTE LOWEST END offerings for those series', new as they are.

If you spent more than $300 on this thing, you were ripped off.
But what's done is done. Next time, do a whole lot of research before putting down money on a pre-built computer. Consider building your own.

games at MAX settings usually at 60FPS!

what... games? I'd have trouble believing a GT610 could run *a* game, much less one at max settings.

Jul 3, 2013 23:07:09 GMT [DWARF] RDs.empire said:

8320 I think is worth a try but gpu will ''slow'' down its full potential and it seems like they don't make much difference. Hard to say since i haven't studied AMD's

What you're trying to say is "bottleneck:"
forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2197372

Let's say I am impatient and just want to boost my desktop NOW, is there much action I can take? If I am limited which I'm sure I am, would it be worth upgrading the most I can without... say, needing a new PSU or Motherboard? Etc...

That's hard to say without knowing what the motherboard was, or the PSU was. Honestly, the PSU is probably fine, provided it's not some shitty manufacturer. Can you link me to the CyberPowerPC page where you bought the thing?

those go pretty cheap if you don't plan on expanding your system much.

Don't cheap out on a board. If a board goes out on the blink, it'll probably take the GPU(s) and the CPU with it. Unless you're really lucky. I'd reccomend $100+ on a board. Same for the PSU. Don't cheap out on that, either. Get a reliable, known brand like Seasonic, Antec, Corsair...

Core i5-3570K (works fine for me and runs software and games really well even with recording + its 2/3 of the price of same tier i7)

Yes, i5>i7 unless you are using applications that support hyperthreading, like Adobe products

Nvidia>AMD>Intel

No, not really. AMD's higher end offerings are pretty much equal to nVidia's, if not better, in certain areas.

Intel doesn't make actual GPUs, rather, they supply integrated GPUs with your CPU, these iGPUs actually being pretty effective unless you game heavily. (Hell, an integrated GPU in a Haswell CPU will run Crysis just fine, so long as you don't max your settings)

Intel>AMD Intel's more expensive but for me its been really reliable and supports everything. Also its hard to cook it, didn't managed to kill mine on my old machine

Read above. I think I already discussed this point.

Upon reading my post over, I sound like an arrogant penis, which is entirely unintentional.

[[DWARF] RDs.empire]

Jul 5, 2013 2:05:01 GMT MarbleDuck said:

Yes, i5>i7 unless you are using applications that support hyperthreading, like Adobe products

Jul 3, 2013 21:30:09 GMT [DWARF] RDs.empire said:

if you're not planning to do serious video/photo editing go for something like Core i5-3570K....

Forgot to mention word hyperthreading and daily but point stays the same...

Jul 5, 2013 2:05:01 GMT MarbleDuck said:

Intel doesn't make actual GPUs, rather, they supply integrated GPUs with your CPU, these iGPUs actually being pretty effective unless you game heavily. (Hell, an integrated GPU in a Haswell CPU will run Crysis just fine, so long as you don't max your settings)

I actually don't mind intel Gpu's. I have intel gpu of my own integrated in motherboard (so if my gpu breaks down i have some small term replacement) but what ive seen for other people is bad comparability on laptops.
[/quote]

Jul 5, 2013 2:05:01 GMT MarbleDuck said:

Upon reading my post over, I sound like an arrogant penis, which is entirely unintentional.

You don't. Also thanks for fixing and precising me.

[Rct3fan00]

MarbleDuck

Thanks for the post. I'll link you to the other things.

I've managed to look inside my computer to find out the motherboard. Plus the site where I got it from probably doesn't display enough info. For example, when I bought it, said I was getting AMD FX-4100 and NVIDIA GT520. Turns out I got 4130 and GT610. Which is BETTER. This PC is a bit on the older side. Which means in 2011 when it was released, it was on the ideal side.

www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00331179000P

Motherboard: (As far as I know, this is what my PC told me) - MSI MS-7641

Another link to info on the PC - www.pcworld.com/product/pg/921904999/detail

Mine has SLIGHTLY more newer features. I must've bought a slightly more updated version. If you want, look up the model. CyberPower PC Gamer Ultra GUA250.

What's hyperthreading? When I use Adobe programs I seem to run them fine. Better than on my laptop. Rendering was a bit on the lengthy side though.

[IsraeliRD]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading

[Rct3fan00]

Damnit we've been through this before... I NEVER LOOK ANYTHING UP. I should fix that. Thanks Matan

[Aayrl]

Cheap is good. I always like cheap equipment that satisfies my computing needs. No sense in building a super computer and 'hoping' that some component doesn't fail within the first six months (which it always does). Hence, when your power supply arrives and then it fails two weeks down the road and for whatever reason your warranty is void if one of the wires is frayed (or something stupid in the fine print), you can always just buy another one through the Newegg Daily Eggbreaker deals for a fourth of the price without breaking the bank

~Aayrl

[Rct3fan00]

As long as it's cheap AND good. That's what I would aim for.

Haha thanks!